Do you think a student should be taught to "give up the Bishop" early on, or should they learn to "treasure the Bishop" first?

(This is highly edited, if you don't like it, take it up with Garron Noone.) Gemini cites chesspublishing.com as one of their sources? Gemini's question, "Do you think a student should be taught to "give up the Bishop" early on, or should they learn to "treasure the Bishop" first?" ---------------- Chess Publishing.com Nimzo Indian Classical Variation: 5 e4!? - Chess Publishing.com Queen's Indian 4 e3 Finally this month, a nice win by the German GM who suffered so badly in the previous game. Vaganian - Naidits... Chess Publishing.com Show all Why not a Benko Gambit? 5:59 PM The Benko Gambit only happens when White pushes the d-pawn to . Because White played instead, the board is no longer a Benko. Chess.com Chess.com +2 Why this isn't a Benko The Missing Space: A "Benko" relies on White having a pawn on that Black can attack with after the Reversed Sicilian start: Show all I would like to stop this, though it is elucidating, I want to go back to the absolute beginner and beginner discussion. You listed 10 openings. If you remember, and I can tell you if you don't, why did you put Queen's gambit as 3? And then, why did you put King's Indian Defense as 8 instead of having the Nimzo Indian as anywhere in the top 10? I think French Defense before the Caro-Kann is fine, but maybe Caro Kann needs to be pushed to to 11-20 openings beginners should learn. This is a great pivot. Let's look at these through the "Language Learning" lens we established, because the order of these "building blocks" is based on how much new vocabulary a student has to learn to survive. 1. Why the Queen’s Gambit was #3 (The "First Advanced Sentence") In my list, #1 and #2 were e4 and d4 (the "Alphabet"). The Queen's Gambit is #3 because it is the most fundamental way to teach a beginner that pawns are not just for blocking; they are for sacrificing or trading. The Lesson: It teaches the concept of the "Gambit" (even though it’s not a true one) and the fight for the center. Why so early? Because if a beginner only plays the Italian/Ruy Lopez, they think the center must always stay "closed" or "locked." The Queen’s Gambit introduces the idea of c4—the side-blow to the center—which is the "Greeting" of all high-level d4 play. 2. Why KID at #8 and No Nimzo-Indian? (The "Idiom" Problem) This is where the difference between a "Beginner" and a "Club Player" (like you) really shows. The Nimzo-Indian is a "High-Level Idiom": To play the Nimzo, you have to understand the value of the Bishop Pair vs. Pawn Structure (doubled c-pawns). An absolute beginner who gives up a Bishop for a Knight usually does it for the wrong reasons. It’s like trying to teach a student metaphors before they can say "The cat is on the mat." The King's Indian (KID) is a "Template": I put it at #8 because it's a System. You can tell a beginner: "Fianchetto, Castle, and then push e5." Even if they don't understand the deep theory, the moves are easy to memorize to reach a playable middlegame. It teaches them how to play without immediate central pawn contact. 3. French (#5) vs. Caro-Kann (#6) I agree with you that the French feels more "natural" to learn first, but for a specific reason: French Defense: It’s intuitive. You push e6 to support d5. It creates a "Chain." Beginners understand chains easily. Caro-Kann: It's "smarter" (because the Bishop isn't trapped), but it's "weirder." You play c6 to support d5, but then you often move that pawn again to c5 later. To an absolute beginner, that feels like a mistake. Your Suggestion: Pushing the Caro-Kann to 11-20 makes sense if you want to focus on Development first. The Caro-Kann is a "Prophylactic" opening—you're playing to be solid. The French is a "Counter-attacking" opening. Usually, it's better to teach kids/beginners how to punch back (French) before teaching them how to be an unbreakable wall (Caro). Revised "Building Block" Logic If we were to re-rank based on your insight: Italian/Ruy (Direct center) Queen's Gambit (Trading center) French (Supporting center) Sicilian (Asymmetrical center) KID/Fianchetto (Giving up center) Where would you place the Scandinavian ( )? Many teachers put it at #1 for Black because it's only one sentence to learn, but it "breaks" the rule of not moving the Queen early. Is that a "Building Block" or a "Bad Habit"? So, Queen's Gambit is better to learn first instead of the Vienna Gambit? I agree for now, but it is interesting. Why do we switch to the Queenside to teach a gambit? Scandinavian only one sentence? Please explain the joke. Based on our conversation, can you tell me again what the top 10 openings a beginner should learn? I acknowledge absolute beginner should not be addressed here. You can leave it the same 10 openings and in the same order or you can change it. The "Scandi" joke is that for a beginner, the entire opening is just one sentence: "I'm going to hit your pawn, then move my Queen around until I can finish developing." It simplifies the game because it deletes all of White's "theory" (no Ruy, no Italian), but it’s a "bad habit" because it teaches beginners to rely on their Queen too early. Here is the revised Top 10 Openings for a Beginner (the "Next Step" player), re-ordered based on our conversation about building blocks and your insight on structural integrity: The Ruy Lopez (Spanish): We put this at #1 now. As you said, it’s better than the Italian because it teaches long-term pressure and structural respect rather than fishing for a quick "cheapo" win. The Italian Game: Still essential. It’s the "standard greeting." It teaches the value of the weakness and the most natural development ( ). The Queen’s Gambit: We move to the Queenside here because the "gambit" is positional, not tactical. In the Vienna Gambit ( ), you're trying to checkmate. In the Queen's Gambit ( ), you're learning to trade a wing pawn for a center pawn—the most important structural lesson in chess. The French Defense: The best way to learn pawn chains and playing with a "space disadvantage." It’s "Black's fortress." The Sicilian Defense (Open): The "Stallion" introduction. It’s the first time a beginner learns that asymmetry (c-pawn for d-pawn) creates winning chances for both sides. The Queen's Gambit Declined (QGD): This is the "Slav's cousin." It teaches the "Classical" way to meet by being solid and patient. The Four Knights Game: The "Symmetry Lesson." It teaches that if you just copy your opponent, you have to be very careful about who breaks the symmetry first. The King’s Indian Defense (KID): The "System" block. It teaches the Fianchetto and how to attack a king even if you have "no center." The Scandinavian Defense: The "Simplifier." It teaches how to force the game into your own territory from move 1, even if it violates the "don't move the Queen" rule. The Caro-Kann: Pushed to #10 because it’s a "Prophylactic" opening. It’s the most sophisticated of the group—learning that you can be "passive" now to be "better" in the endgame. Why not the Vienna Gambit? The Vienna Gambit is great, but it’s a "Tactical" building block. If the opponent knows the defense, White can get in trouble fast. The Queen's Gambit is a "Strategic" building block. Even if Black knows the best moves, White still has a very solid, professional game. Learning the Queen's Gambit prepares you for the way 2000+ players actually think about the center. Does this order feel like it builds the right "vocabulary" for a player trying to bridge the gap from 1500 to 1800? _________________________________________________ Ok, so why didn't you move the King's Indian Defense so we could include the Nimzo Indian? The reason the Nimzo-Indian gets "benched" in a Beginner Top 10—even while the KID stays—is because of the "Language vs. Concept" problem we discussed. The "System" vs. "The Hyper-Modern Concept" The KID (#8) is a "Template": You can teach a beginner the "moves" of the King's Indian (Fianchetto, Castle, , ) as a script. Even if they don't understand the deep engine evaluation, they have a safe, playable position and a clear "punch" in the center. It’s a System. The Nimzo is a "Debate": The Nimzo-Indian ( __________________________________________________ ) is one of the greatest openings in history, but its building block is "The Trade." You are voluntarily giving up the Bishop pair to create doubled pawns for White. To a beginner, "giving up a Bishop for a Knight" is usually a mistake. To play the Nimzo, you have to understand why a static weakness (doubled pawns) is worth more than a dynamic piece (the Bishop). That is a very "late-stage" building block. Why not swap them? If I move the KID to make room for the Nimzo, I’m removing the student’s only exposure to Hyper-modernism (controlling the center with pieces from a distance) and replacing it with Deep Positional Imbalance. A beginner can "feel" the attack in the King's Indian. A beginner usually "feels" like they are losing in the Nimzo because they gave away their "best" piece. The "11-20" List The Nimzo-Indian is the undisputed #11. It is the very first thing I would teach a player who has mastered the "Basic Vocabulary" and is ready to learn about Imbalances. In the language analogy: KID is like a catchy song you can sing without knowing every word. Nimzo is like a legal contract; if you don't understand the fine print (the pawn structure), you're going to get sued (lose the game). Do you think a student should be taught to "give up the Bishop" early on, or should they learn to "treasure the Bishop" first?

Gemini discussion on tritones (F# only or a block of 7 in the key of C major?)

This is a crucial turning point in our understanding of the tritone. To answer your question—how does a block of notes find relief?—we have to look at how a "zone of tension" collapses into a "zone of rest." If your F# is a single point of impact (the bullet), the F-B block is the pressure wave. 1. The Geometry of the "Collapse" When you have a block of notes like F-G-A-B, you aren't just looking at seven chromatic semitones (F, F#, G, G#, A, A#, B). You are looking at two "magnetic" poles at the edges of that block. In the key of C major: The Top Edge (B): This is the "Leading Tone." It is mathematically desperate to move up to C. The Bottom Edge (F): This is the 4th degree. It has a heavy gravitational pull downward to E. The "relief" for the block occurs when the two edges of the block move in contrary motion (moving away from or toward each other) to land on a stable interval. 2. The "Passing" Nature of the Block You mentioned the tritone is a "passing tone." If we treat the whole F-B block as a "passing state," the resolution looks like this: Tension: The block F−G−A−B creates a dissonant "cloud." Resolution: The block "squeezes" shut. The F drops to E, and the B jumps to C. The Result: You land on the interval E and C, which are the primary "home" notes of C Major. The "7 chromatic notes" inside that block are essentially the friction you feel as you move from the start of the climax to the end. They don't each resolve individually; they are the "body" of the tension that dissipates once the edges (F and B) find their home. 3. Why the "Block" supports your F# Theory Think of it this way: Your F# is the exact center of that block. If the block is a rubber band stretched between F and B, F# is the midpoint. When the rubber band is released, the energy passes through that F# midpoint as it snaps back to the stable notes (E and C). Aristoxenus would argue that the "relief" isn't just found in the notes themselves, but in the functional shift of the whole space. The "three-tone" space is an area of "active" energy that "passes" into a "passive" or "rested" space.

Tonic vs. Root

12/2 Working on a study between knight and king in games (any configuration for now, any move or position). King has to be one of them. Or does it? In music we often drop the root. I asked what the two most important pieces in a chess game analysis were. 1st inning (playing baseball, chess, and music) Gemini answered knight and bishop, forgetting a king is needed. 2nd try, it then went to knight and rook. 3rd try, it reversed the order to rook and knight. (Still the same thing.) 4th try, pawn and king. "Is this closer to your idea? By focusing on the Pawn (Unit of Time/Rhythm) and the King (Harmonic Anchor/Key), we establish the most fundamental and universally essential patterns in both the game and music." Sounds like a good conclusion, but not what I was loooking for. I asked again. 5th try, it then suggested rook with bishop (not recognizing a king is still needed in chess). I gave it three strikes then it was out, on the third strike it did bring up the queen with bishop (referencing their diagonal moves). Middle game analysis is more pertinent here, but bringing out the queen needs more careful consideration. Earlier on, queen trades would happen. 2nd inning I asked Gemini which the scariest moves in the beginning were and which piece it feared the most. It mentioned bishop. I thought the same until I learned about the bishop pair. I would always trade off a bishop before knight. My ignorance told me knights can go on all the squares, one bishop can't. Therefore, 2 knights are stronger than 2 bishops. To make it more absurd, I would trade off the LSB in the Philidor Defense just so I would have the "advantage". 3rd inning Root vs. Tonic

Chessmusic 1 (2025)

Using Gemini to work on combining chess with music. That's the final, crucial step in defining your Chess Harmony Framework! To accurately capture the complexity of the Nf3 opening, the "minor/modal" change is best described as a combination of chords and modal choices, specifically focusing on Parallel Minor and Suspended/Modal chords. Here is the proposed method for mapping the Nf3 opening: Describing the Nf3 "Minor/Modal" Change The most effective musical description is to use a progression that starts suspended/modal and then transposes into one of the main functional harmonies (C Major or C Minor) based on Black's reply. 1. The Starting Chord: Suspended/Flexible The initial move 1.Nf3 should be mapped to a chord that is non-committal about being Major or Minor, reflecting the strategic flexibility of the move: Chord Choice: Csus4 (C-F-G) or Csus2 (C-D-G). Reasoning: These are the ideal flexible/suspended harmonies. They contain the root (C) and the 5th (G) but replace the 3rd (E or E♭) with a neighboring note, leaving the Major/Minor quality unresolved. This perfectly matches White's plan: develop a piece, control the center, and wait for Black to decide the nature of the fight. 2. The Transposition: Mode/Scale Change The scale or mode only becomes defined after Black forces White to commit to a central plan (e4 or d4): Scenario A: Black Allows e4 Transposition (Major Key) Chess: If Black's moves allow White to play e4 favorably (e.g., in the favorable lines of 1.Nf3e5), the harmony resolves to C Major. Musical Change: Csus4→Cmaj7 (Resolution to the Tonic) → The progression continues in the C Ionian (Major) scale: I→IV→V. Scenario B: Black Forces d4 Transposition (Parallel Minor Key) Chess: If Black plays solid moves like 1...d5 or 1...Nf6, White often follows up with c4 and g3, entering a closed Queen's Gambit or Indian Defense structure. Musical Change: Csus4→Cmin7 (Resolution to the Minor Tonic) → The progression continues using the C Parallel Minor scale (natural, harmonic, or melodic minor) for the chords i→iv→V. 3. Avoiding Extreme Modes While C Phrygian (like D♭-C) is a mode of the A♭ Major scale, it's too exotic and highly dissonant to represent a sound, flexible chess opening. The goal is to capture strategic stability while being non-committal, which is why Suspended Harmony is a better fit than extreme modal dissonance. The final map for your Nf3 opening is therefore: 1.Nf3 → Csus4 → Follows Black’s Move → C Major (e4) OR C Minor (d4) It starts with an ambiguous chord, and the scale is chosen by the opponent's reply.

Random Image

/*HTML

*/ function loadRandomPicture() { // Array of 10 possible picture file names const imageFiles = [ "image1.jpg", "image2.jpg", "image3.jpg", "image4.jpg", "image5.jpg", "image6.jpg", "image7.jpg", "image8.jpg", "image9.jpg", "image10.jpg" ]; // Generate a random index within the range of the array const randomIndex = Math.floor(Math.random() * imageFiles.length); // Get the randomly selected file name const randomImage = imageFiles[randomIndex]; // Create an image element const img = new Image(); // Set the source of the image element img.src = randomImage; // Add an event listener to handle image loading img.onload = () => { // Once the image is loaded, display it (e.g., in an HTML element) document.getElementById("image-container").appendChild(img); }; // Add an event listener to handle image loading errors img.onerror = () => { console.error(`Error loading image: ${randomImage}`); // Handle the error (e.g., display an error message) }; } // Call the function to load a random picture loadRandomPicture();

Euchre (Card Game) - Starting the bidding process

The code below starts the bidding process. It's possible now to add graphics, that might be next as well as continuing with picking up. 

Can be tested at https://www.onlinegdb.com/online_python_compiler

#This is to evaluate dealt cards for all four players.
import random

player_num = random.randint(0,3) #Assigns players a number.
suits = ["clubs", "spades", "diamonds", "hearts"]
trump_order = []
cnums_dealt = []
cards = ["9♣", "10♣", "J♣", "Q♣", "K♣", "A♣", "9♠", "10♠", "J♠", "Q♠", "K♠", "A♠", "9♦", "10♦", "J♦", "Q♦", "K♦", "A♦", "9♥", "10♥", "J♥", "Q♥", "K♥", "A♥"]
cards2 = ["9♣", "10♣", "J♣", "Q♣", "K♣", "A♣", "9♠", "10♠", "J♠", "Q♠", "K♠", "A♠", "9♦", "10♦", "J♦", "Q♦", "K♦", "A♦", "9♥", "10♥", "J♥", "Q♥", "K♥", "A♥"]
cnums = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23]
cnumscopy = cnums.copy() #This is for second round bidding.
cnums_value = []
cardsnum_dealt = 23


#Generating cards dealt out
for x in range (21):
    cards_dealt = (random.randint(0,cardsnum_dealt))
    if len (cnums) == 4:
        cnums_number = cnums[cards_dealt]
    trump_order.append(cards[cards_dealt])
    cnums_dealt.append(cnums[cards_dealt])
    cardsnum_dealt = cardsnum_dealt - 1
    cards.pop(cards_dealt)
    cnums.pop(cards_dealt)
#print ("trump order ", trump_order)
#print ("cnums_dealt ", cnums_dealt)
print ("\nThe card the dealer turned over was", trump_order[20])

#Assigning values to each card
if cnums_dealt[20] < 6:  
 cnums_dealtcopy = cnums_dealt.copy()
 #print("cnums_dealtcopy:", cnums_dealtcopy)
 #print("Trump could be clubs.")
 for value in range (13):
  for card_num in range (21):
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 6 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 12 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 18:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 1
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 7 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 13 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 19:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 2
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 14 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 20:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 3
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 9 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 15 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 21:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 4
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 10 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 16 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 22:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 5
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 11 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 17 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 23:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 6
    
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 0:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 7

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 1:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 8

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 2:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 13

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 3:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 9

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 4:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 10

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 5:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 11

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 8:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 12

   suitbid = 5 #filter for clubs in second bid round
   secondsuitbid = 0
    
 #print ("New cnums_dealtcopy", cnums_dealtcopy)
 


if cnums_dealt[20] > 5 and cnums_dealt[20] < 12:
 cnums_dealtcopy = cnums_dealt.copy()
 #print("cnums_dealtcopy:", cnums_dealtcopy)
 #print("Trump could be spades.")
 for value in range (13):
  for card_num in range (21):
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 0 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 12 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 18:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 1
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 1 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 13 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 19:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 2
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 14 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 20:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 3
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 3 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 15 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 21:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 4
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] ==  4 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 16 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 22:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 5
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 5 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 17 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 23:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 6
    
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 6:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 7

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 7:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 8

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 8:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 13

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 9:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 9

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 10:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 10

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 11:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 11

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 2:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 12

   suitbid = 11 #filter for spades in second bid round
   secondsuitbid = 1

 #print ("New cnums_dealtcopy", cnums_dealtcopy)


 
if cnums_dealt[20] > 11 and cnums_dealt[20] < 18:
 cnums_dealtcopy = cnums_dealt.copy()
 #print("cnums_dealtcopy:", cnums_dealtcopy)
 #print("Trump could be diamonds.")
 for value in range (13):
  for card_num in range (21):
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 0 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 6 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 18:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 1
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 1 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 7 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 19:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 2
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 2 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 8:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 3
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 3 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 9 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 21:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 4
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] ==  4 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 10 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 22:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 5
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 5 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 11 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 23:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 6
    
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 12:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 7

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 13:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 8

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 14:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 13

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 15:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 9

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 16:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 10

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 17:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 11

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 20:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 12

   suitbid = 17 #filter for diamonds in second bid round
   secondsuitbid = 2

 #print ("New cnums_dealtcopy", cnums_dealtcopy)

     
if cnums_dealt[20] > 17 and cnums_dealt[20] < 24:
 cnums_dealtcopy = cnums_dealt.copy()
 #print("cnums_dealtcopy:", cnums_dealtcopy)
 #print("Trump could be hearts.")
 for value in range (13):
  for card_num in range (21):
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 0 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 6 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 12:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 1
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 1 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 7 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 13:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 2
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 2 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 8:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 3
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 3 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 9 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 15:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 4
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] ==  4 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 10 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 16:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 5
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 5 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 11 or cnums_dealt[card_num] == 17:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 6
    
   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 18:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 7

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 19:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 8

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 20:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 13

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 21:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 9

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 22:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 10

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 23:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 11

   if cnums_dealt[card_num] == 14:
    cnums_dealtcopy[card_num] = 12

   suitbid = 23 #filter for hearts in second bid round
   secondsuitbid = 3
    
 #print ("New cnums_dealtcopy", cnums_dealtcopy)


player1 = trump_order[0], trump_order[4], trump_order[8], trump_order[12], trump_order[16]
player2 = trump_order[1], trump_order[5], trump_order[9], trump_order[13], trump_order[17]
player3 = trump_order[2], trump_order[6], trump_order[10], trump_order[14], trump_order[18]
player4 = trump_order[3], trump_order[7], trump_order[11], trump_order[15], trump_order[19]

player1_bidding_points = cnums_dealtcopy[0]+cnums_dealtcopy[4]+cnums_dealtcopy[8]+cnums_dealtcopy[12]+cnums_dealtcopy[16]
player2_bidding_points = cnums_dealtcopy[1]+cnums_dealtcopy[5]+cnums_dealtcopy[9]+cnums_dealtcopy[13]+cnums_dealtcopy[17]
player3_bidding_points = cnums_dealtcopy[2]+cnums_dealtcopy[6]+cnums_dealtcopy[10]+cnums_dealtcopy[14]+cnums_dealtcopy[18]
player4_bidding_points = cnums_dealtcopy[3]+cnums_dealtcopy[7]+cnums_dealtcopy[11]+cnums_dealtcopy[15]+cnums_dealtcopy[19]

#print("\nPlayer 1: ",player1, "\nbidding points =", player1_bidding_points)
#print("\nPlayer 2: ",player2, "\nbidding points =", player2_bidding_points)
#print("\nPlayer 3: ",player3, "\nbidding points =", player3_bidding_points)
#print("\nPlayer 4: ",player4, "\nbidding points =", player4_bidding_points)
print("You are player", player_num+1, "\n")

#Is there another way to isolate a player's assignment? This makes them part of a list and can be referenced by position in the list.
playerlist = [player1, player2, player3, player4]
print("Your cards are:", playerlist[player_num])

#Passing or Picking up

for playerbid in range (4):
 #print ("player bid = ", playerbid)
 while playerbid+1 != player_num+1:
  print ("Player ",playerbid+1," will pass.")
  break
 if playerbid+1 == player_num+1 and playerbid+1 !=4:
  bidpickup = input("\nWill you pass or tell the dealer to pick up? Type \'skip' to pass or 'pick up'.\n\n")
  if bidpickup == "pick up":
   print("Will be programmed later, using skip for now.")
if player_num+1 == 4:
 dealerbid = input("\nYou are the dealer. Do you want to pick up \nor pass and go to a second round of bidding?\nType \'skip' to pass or 'pick up'.\n\n")

#print ("suit bid# is ", suitbid)
#print ("cnums is", cnumscopy)
for passbidsuit in range (6):
 cnumscopy.pop(cnumscopy[suitbid-passbidsuit])
#print ("cnums filtered is", cnumscopy)


suits.pop(secondsuitbid)

callsuit = "on"
while callsuit == "on":
 bidpasscall = input("\nWill you pass again or call a suit? Type \'skip' or 'call'.\n")   
 if bidpasscall == ("call"):
  print("\nThree suits left are:",suits)
  callbid = input("Choose one of the suits. \n")
  if callbid == suits[0] or callbid == suits[1] or callbid == suits[2]:
   callsuit = "off"
 elif bidpasscall == ("skip"): #Using else doesn't work here.
  print ("\nMore to be programmed later, call a suit for now.")

print("\nTrump will be", callbid)